Getting into Amazon and Google despite failing Intro to Programming. Meet Maria.
Despite failing programming, getting flagged for plagiarism and fired as a software engineer - Maria managed to overcome her imposter syndrome, win hackathons and land internships at Amazon and Google
Maria Pospelova
Studies MSc CS@TU Munich (Ongoing), BSc CS@TU Munich (‘23)
Experiences: Google SWE Intern, Amazon SDE Intern, KAIST Researcher
Links: LinkedIn
Growing Up in Russia and Germany
Where did you grow up and what languages do you speak?
I was born in Russia, in the third biggest city in the country, called Novosibirsk. It’s located in Siberia, Asia. My family moved to Germany when I was 5 years old because my father got a job in Munich. Since 2005, I’ve been living in Munich. I didn’t move anywhere else, but my parents moved around a lot - right now, they’re living in France for example.
I speak Russian because of my parents since I learned it from a very young age. I learned German without any classes - my parents just threw me into first grade without any German knowledge. I don’t quite remember, but I had to learn German on the go while studying with other German-speaking children. Luckily I wasn’t the only one - there were a Russian and a British girl whom I communicated with.
We were the only kids without any German knowledge, but we supported each other and tried to learn together.
High School Experience
What were you like in high school? Did you do any side projects?
In high school, I was very introverted. I did not have any friends at all. While in grade school I still had lots of friends, in high school I somehow became shy and quiet, maybe that’s because of growing up and puberty. Maybe I had complexes because my German was not as good and people would not talk to me.
I was the typical weird kid in class with no friends who just hung out alone during breaks. I did not interact with anybody, I just read my books in German and Russian. Throughout high school, I mainly was just focusing on my studies and reading books.
The growth I experienced mainly started at university. I know there are lots of people who started programming at a very young age, maybe even in grade school, but that was not the case for me. I was the weird kid with no friends until 9th or 10th grade when I started to get more extroverted and talk to more people.
The learnings I had were mainly through university. I think one of the main things that happened was that I got really lucky to land in a group of people who were just really ambitious and knew what they wanted from life. It’s always like that - if you want to quit smoking, don’t hang out with smokers because you won’t be able to quit. If you want to grow, learn new skills, and become a better person, you should hang out with people you admire, and who have the qualities you want to have. Subconsciously it happens that you get motivated and start to do more things. I got lucky to land in this university group of friends who motivated me and I started to take my life more seriously.
Were you considered very smart in high school?
I mean, I was good at math and my friends in high school thought I was good at math, but I was just average. In Germany, 1 is the best grade and 6 is the worst. I was usually getting 2s and 1s in math.
Among my friends, I was considered the smart kid, even though there were much smarter people. I think it got to my head since everybody was saying “Oh my God, you’re so good at math”. So I came to university thinking I would ace math. But no, my first grade was a 4.0 - I barely passed the exams. All my math exams, even up until now, are pretty bad. My grades right now are not so good actually, but as a software engineer, you don’t necessarily need that. The grades don’t really matter in most cases.
First year struggles in TU Munich
Why did you choose to study Computer Science at TU Munich?
I just chose it without any reason. My father is a software engineer, so I thought that maybe I could give it a try. I did not have any strong passion or interest in computer science, but I still decided to do it since I didn’t have any other ideas. Lots of people were studying economics or business management which seemed a bit boring to me. So I thought I’d try out computer science without any expectations but over the years I kind of started liking it.
In the beginning, I did not have any coding experience at all. I thought it would be fine because the university told us that you don’t need programming experience. One of the first courses, called Introduction to Programming in Java, also said you can do it with no coding skills, and I mean, it’s an introductory course. But the big twist was that especially for people with no experience the exercises were really hard, and the learning curve was very steep.
I was struggling a lot to the point that I failed that course. I was always asking my father for help since he had experience, and he always helped me with my homework. So I kind of did not learn anything - I was looking at the code but still not understanding how it works. After 3-4 months, he got tired of doing the homework for me and told me to do it by myself.
So I tried to do it by myself, but I failed miserably. One of the topics back then was bucket sorting, but I did not understand it. While trying to understand how bucket sort works, got very frustrated because the course grade depended on the points collected through the homework. So at 3 am, I looked up the bucket sort algorithm online and copied it into my code. In the end, I got flagged for plagiarism and failed the course.
In high school, I thought “I’m good at math and problem-solving”. Then I joined university and suddenly everybody around me was so smart and much better than me. It was a completely different world. I started to have an inferiority complex and my self-esteem and confidence crumbled.
I was experiencing that during the first couple of months of university - everybody was really smart, I had really bad grades, I did not understand anything at all, and then I was flagged for plagiarism. Even worse, I was working part-time as a software engineer and got fired because I didn’t show up to work anymore since I thought that I was not worthy enough, I was too afraid to ask questions and felt dumb in comparison to my co-workers.
It was almost the last straw for me, where I thought that maybe I should quit computer science since everything was turning out so bad. It was a very tough time, I think that was the point where my self-esteem was at the lowest point possible.
Overcoming Challenges with Support
How did you progress after getting flagged for plagiarism and losing your part-time job?
It was really bad and I was contemplating not continuing with computer science. But at that time, I got into a relationship pretty early on in university, and my partner is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my entire life. But since he was so smart, very good at programming, passionate, knew what to do with his life, and had basically everything I did not have, my inferiority complex increased even more.
But in the end, my partner was the one who motivated me the most to get better. When I told him I wanted to quit and maybe do something else, he told me to try for another semester and that he would help me.
In the second semester, we had the Algorithms and Data Structures course. I can vividly remember that we had to code the functionalities of an array list by using the array data structure in Java so that when the array is filled up, it extends by double the size.
It was the very first homework I tried to solve on my own without any outside help. In the end, it was wrong of course - I submitted it more than 20 times and it was always wrong.
So my partner sat together with me the whole day long, just trying to fix my code. He looked at it and told me how I could do it better, and what was right or wrong. Through that process, I learned a lot about clean programming, variable naming conventions, and all the basic stuff I should have learned in the intro course but I didn’t, because back then, I did not even try to do it by myself.
This kind of help I received from him was really good and motivated me to continue with computer science. It has suddenly gotten really fun to solve programming problems. I started the third semester and redid the introductory course completely by myself without any outside help. I actually got a pretty good grade on that, so it was a really big motivational boost too.
I started to participate in hackathons as well since I got a bit more confident about my skills and learned what it is like to learn correctly. From that moment on, it kind of went uphill.
Participating in Hackathons
Tell me about your experience with the Google Solution Challenge hackathon.
One of the hackathons that followed shortly after I got a bit more coding skills and confidence was the Google Solution Challenge 2020. It was introduced in 2019 but at first, and only conducted in the South Pacific region. 2020 was the first time it was conducted in Europe.
It was my first real experience of what it’s like to work in a team, distribute work, handle team conflicts. I suddenly started learning about machine learning, deep learning, frontend development, and UI design, something that is not really taught inside the university, at least not practically.
It was one of the hardest projects because it was where I learned how to learn. I think as soon as you understand the best approach for yourself to learn, further projects are not as hard anymore. Even if you have an unsolvable problem, you still know how to approach it and find a solution.
So this hackathon and project was the hardest for me since it was a steep learning curve of how to learn about new frameworks, utilize them effectively, and stuff like that. It was really cool though, we were able to win and become one of the top 10 winning teams selected from 600+ teams participating all around the world. In 2021, I again participated in the Google Solution Challenge, and we were able to again be selected as one of the top 10 teams out of 800+ participating teams.
With that experience, I started applying for jobs and one of them was an internship at Amazon, which I got in the end.
Interning at Amazon
How was your experience interning at Amazon?
It was very enriching even though it was really hard and I did not like it as much, especially because of the stress I was experiencing and working overtime. But that mainly was because of my imposter syndrome, it made me feel like I did not belong there because everybody was so smart around me.
One of the learnings I had over the years was that it’s not about being smart or not, it’s about learning. There will always be a person smarter than you and it’s much better to learn from them rather than doubt your skills and compare yourself to them. But I learned that much later, after Amazon.
At Amazon, I was focusing on “I’m dumb, and everybody’s smarter than me”. I think this mindset remained from my first semester even though it improved a little bit. This is why my Amazon experience wasn’t as great.
Still, even though I was doubting myself a lot, unlike in the first semester when I was ready to give up, this time I was not as ready to give up. I started investing more time in trying to understand the problem, talking to my teammates, and asking questions. In the end, I even got a returning offer, which I decided not to take.
Nonetheless, it was interesting to see how a big company is structured from the inside. I got nice insights into how to use Git in a big company, how to do code reviews, and work on existing code. Up until then, I have only had programming experience through hackathons, but hackathon programming is of course completely different than working at a big company.
I also had my first architecture design experience. I had to design a data flow with Amazon products for my specific project and implement it from scratch. I had to work with existing code and also implement new code.
I would say Amazon was still a really big stepping stone in my career since it’s a FAANG company. As soon as another company sees you have a FAANG company on your resume, it’s much easier to get a job as a software engineer. After Amazon, I was able to quickly secure a software engineering part-time working position at a big German company.
Did the Amazon experience boost your confidence in studying and programming afterward?
I would say for sure, the more experience you gain, the more confident you get. Other companies invite you to interviews much more often than before the internship, recruiters reach out by themselves. But it can be negative confidence as well. If you are self-conscious with very low self-esteem and suddenly you achieve things that are perceived as great by other people, you can get the wrong confidence boost.
Everybody starts saying “Oh my God, you’re so smart, you’re at Amazon”, even though it’s a company like any other. One should be careful with that and not become arrogant.
I started to realize that after I left Amazon. I was feeling normal until people around me started telling me how smart I was for getting into Amazon. Suddenly people who were not paying attention to me started paying a lot of attention to me and asking lots of questions.
At first, I liked that, since as a person who was an outcast, did not receive much attention in the early stages of life from other people, and had few friends, suddenly getting all this attention, of course, I started liking it. But at some point, I noticed that this can lead in the wrong direction. You have to be careful not to become arrogant and stay humble.
Joining Google
What motivated you to intern at Google and how was your experience?
One of the main reasons I wanted to work at Google was because of its name and prestige. I saw, how a person who did an internship at Google received lots of attention and validation. I wanted to have this validation and attention too. I wanted people to notice me and respect me.
But after getting into Google, I noticed that it doesn’t change who you are only because you’re working at Google. And it’s not about how other people treat you. It’s not about the attention or validation that you get from the outside, it’s not about the compliments and respect.
You should join a company because of its mission and goal you align with, how much you can learn and improve there, and being surrounded by incredibly smart people you can learn from as well - it’s not about the prestige or the name of the company.
My internship at Google helped me to open my eyes, and see the company for what it actually is and not for its name or prestige. I learned so much through my project, my mentors, my team, and other people. I was able to not only improve my technical skills but also my soft skills. I was able to become more confident and drop the wrong mindset of comparing myself to other people and being envious of them while hating myself. I could finally see who I was, and this incredibly helped me to grow. I am very thankful for all the experiences I have had there, and all the people who have helped me with that journey.
Google has an awesome culture and work-life balance, and it’s one of the best companies I’ve ever worked at. I want to go back at some point.
Visiting Korea for research
Tell me about your experience doing a research semester in KAIST (Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Technology).
One of my goals is to live in as many countries as possible and experience as many different cultures as possible. Different people and cultures have different ways of thinking and approaches to problems, and you can learn a lot from them. So I thought it would be super nice while I’m a student to live in different countries, while I have the flexibility to do so.
I’ve been to South Korea now, and I’m going to Japan actually in one month for a semester abroad. In South Korea, I was a visiting researcher at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST).
I never had any experience in research except for writing my bachelor’s thesis, and I don’t think I want to go into research in the future life, but, it was still very interesting to work as a researcher. It was a great opportunity to try out a different area of computer science, completely different from the one I’ve been working at. I was able to acquire more skills and improve existing ones, such as problem-solving, analytical thinking, creativity, and time and project management.
In my opinion, trying out different areas of computer science is a great way to explore what you like and what you don’t like, and also get new experiences and skills.
I understood that research is too stressful for me and I don’t want to do that. Nonetheless, it was a nice experience. I learned a lot of things about Korean culture as well, and I am very grateful for that. It helped me to become more open to other people’s opinions and perspectives, and become more empathetic and considerate.
Advice for students
If you could speak to yourself when you’re just about to start bachelor’s, is there any advice you’d give to yourself?
Do not compare yourself with other people, I would say. I mean, it’s not bad, if you do it in a healthy way. You can learn a lot from people who are better than you, you can become more motivated and confident, and even make awesome friends.
But if you do that in an unhealthy way by bringing yourself down and diminishing your skills, then it’s not good. You will become more insecure, and you will miss awesome opportunities because you’re afraid to fail. One awesome thing about being confident is that you are much more open to new opportunities completely out of your comfort zone, and you’re not afraid to fail. By not being afraid to fail you will try so many new things, and this will help you to gain new experiences, grow and improve much faster. Only if you are able to fail you are able to improve.
Closing notes
Hey - Arnie here. Past weeks were quite busy (so that’s why the gap with the posting - sorry!). But there’s so many more cool guests already recorded and I’ve prepared many more blog posts already, so from now on it should be consistent posting :))
Quick poll for the audience, how often should I post?
Also, as always, would love to get your feedback:
Stay tuned for some super exciting guests - NASA Interns, exited entrepreneurs, Nvidia & Apple engineers, and more 🤯
Arnie :)
inspiring:)